Interpretation by heart

The latest entry of Unprofessional Translation blog has a lingering impact. It briefly tell the stories of untrained people doing interpretation like a pro. The lingering impact I am talking about is that it questions everything written in this very blog. Why fussing about interpreters' ecosystem you love to hate, learning tricks and methodologies highlighted but not earnestly practiced, and all and every considerations that oozes of academia longed for but unattainable. After all, who carees? It might be no accident that the natural interpreters referred to in the article are men, and a woman, of faith. They are in unison with the speakers whose meanings they move from one language to another.

Liaising for business

The papers of the Mediation at Work. Learning to Liaise in Business conference of last year in Trieste are under peer-review for publication. Just imagine how things would change even in niche topics if the presentations had been recorded, even for audio at least. I bet they were recorded, for posterity.

Giving a quotation

This is a public answer to a private question. First of all, let me put things straight. I never received advise on the matter of fee setting and giving quotation. If you think that after all these years, things are set and clear, you'll be wrong. They are almost set and clear although sometimes doubt creeps back to you, but seldom today.

Also, this has never been intended as a self-help kind of blog where the self-confident gives you a good lesson, oozing of what else but ... self-confidence.

So let me state that self-confidence is not part of the freelancing game, but aiming at it should come as one over many other essential objectives from day one, although you don't reach it from day two.

Two essential things :

1. Set a price limit with yourself. The price limit is what you deem acceptable, the minimum threshold under which, except for the exceptional situations, you will feel bad you accepted. It is very difficult to focus and work well when you feel you blundered with you fees.

2. Know the realities of the market. This knowledge takes time to get and it must be revised often. It is this knowledge that will nourish the issue at #1, but not necessarily exactly reflect it.  

There are a few Japanese newsletters providing news for interpreting stints that come with fees. These are the worst cases and you may feel the gloom and hypocrisy of the market when reading the figures and conditions. A recent one announced and "attendant job" of multiple days somewhere in the countryside with nothing special, just "attending" a British technician in a noisy and hot environment, a few knowledge of electromechanics and the likes. And you get the privilege to get paid ¥1800 per hour. You can be sure someone took the job.

Is this someone to be you, and is this acceptable? If you are in the market and need any money, or are ready to accept anything for the sake of gaining experience, the answer is a pragmatic and cool "Yes". Go for it, knowing that this is close to a scam, but not an exception.

You will roam the Internet for local agencies and try and grab any information about fees, but also fees versus duration. Some give figures or hints. The majority gives nothing. Next, you will do the same for agencies outside this country for the same purpose. You will also do the same for freelancers like you and me but the instances of individual freelancers web sites are reduced and usually no fee figure is provided, which is the way to go, unless you want to tell the world you shave for 0.99 cents on Thursdays. 

The only cases I know where a figure is clearly announced is for deposition interpreters. This being such a niche and high end market where clients don't go fishing for bargain, the "starts from ¥120,000 a day of 8 hours including 1 hour rest" is standard. They don't worry about the competition.

I put a plural above to market "realities" because there is no single reality although the urge for deflation of fees is one among other realities. Knowing the realities is a game of searching for clues, hints and clear data.

Usually, don't ask your colleagues about their fees for the following reasons :

1. You can't ask because you mostly know no colleagues as most interpreters are stupid enough not to professionally bond. It is acute in this country although it may not be that different elsewhere. Yet, some specialties do bond, that's why you have associations of medical interpreters for instance.

2. Asking for fees applied by a colleague is usually a proof of your lack of self-confidence and can be perceived much like asking for her Visa card number including the PIN code. But you may have a varied reaction if you try it. Before that ask yourself how you would feel if asked. I will tell you my current fees when we meet. It is as far as I know in the market, although the market's span is huge, but guessing what's above at the top is easy. The deposition interpreting figure is a clear indication.

3. Asking about individual fees usually may make feel you bad, unless you are confident more than 100% in your own fee rules. It is tough to argument why you ask much less than your counterpart, and your counterpart may hate you because by asking so few "you are breaking the market" (which is furiously funny coming from people who can't professionally bond, because this bondlessness is a factor of market breaking if you think deep into it).

Only if you have a friendly relationship with a colleague may you ask about fees.

Don't think that a client calls you direct because she first contacted an agency and could not gulp down the estimate. There are many factors that explain why and how the prospect came knocking at you door. But when she comes and asks, be ready to answer with assumed or faked self-confidence.

However, I would rarely answer right away unless I get a minimum of information about the assignment. Inquirers not providing information right away or sending an inquiry through Yahoo! Mail and the likes are usually suspect, although I have had cases where things turned around nicely.

There are countries from which most of the time never conclude. Singapore, Hong Kong, China at large and India are the standards worse case only looking for the ceiling price. If you want to be the ceiling price, that's fine as long as you don't hate you. Otherwise, read back the top arguments. 

There will always be someone accepting less than you do.

Don't offer an hourly rate. Offer a half-day and a full-day rate. A half-day is up to 3 hours, a full day is up to 8 hours. For full days, you may agree with yourself that it is limitless. Yet, when it goes beyond 14 hours, you'll start and hate you, or even before. I never had to hate me for that reason at least. I have a past 8 hours rate with an increment of one hour, although most of the time, 8 hours is enough. If you accompany a delegation over several day, apply a fix daily fee with no mention of time.

Have arguments ready when a prospect tells you "but it's only 2 hours". Your arguments are to be based on cost of opportunities and the fact that your time is money. 

Don't bargain unless you really want the job, after you exposed your fees. Find good reasons - for yourself- to accept less (because it's a multiple days assignments, because it could turn into a regular client - although don't count on it first time - because I have to pay the rent, etc.).

Assume confidence with your arguments to justify your fees, but don't argue much. My own argument is that you don't bargain at the butcher's, so why should the client bargain, especially when asking for off-the market fees? OK, there are other butcher's where the meat is cheaper. But there are butcher's where the meat is more expansive that make good business. It always comes down to self-confidence with one's fees.

Once you have set your fees with yourself, the span at which you may consider lower the line, be prepared to review the whole set in some special circumstances, or as a reflection of market circumstances.

Don't work for free, that is, in this country at least, don't work for free. I have seen requested from embassies for "language attendants" in some non-profit setting, transportation cost at your charge. If from the heart, you should at least get the money for the tickets and water for free.

So the way to give your quotation is much like the butcher's way, with confidence, real or faked.

I must have missed some additional points but that's about it for today.

My first interpreter job

Not mine. His. I am pasting here an incredible ingenuous message that came in some professional network BBS.

"Hello all. I will be performing my first job as an interpreter next
week. Any help from the veterans would be greatly appreciated. Also,
research methods (I.e. The company's product, etc.) or specific
language reference books/methods would be appreciated. Also, does
anyone know a good business jgo, keigo reference?"

Everything sounds wrong here, including the gentleman's web site, the pretense you can read there to be a pro. No link out of politeness. Everyone pretenses something at some times, especially early time. You have to start from somewhere and stop the spanking of "please forgive me but I am virgin at all this".

My first assignment while still a university student came through a teacher. It was not interpretation. It was eavesdropping mission. Listening and reporting. A spy in a sense. I was definitely and for good reasons unsure about my competence of "mere listening". To what the teacher snapped back : "You will always be better than your boss." She proved in the long time to be wrong as nowadays,  speaking Japanese to whatever extend is nothing miraculous.

But back to the kid. I can hear the guffaws, laughter and sneers of the readers. They will not seriously answer. What with the fact that when it comes to interpretation, with Japanese in the picture but is it limited to that language?, don't count on anything from the big boys - and a majority of big girls.

I am missing the meaning of jgo but you won't make anything about keigo, honorific language, in a week so forget about it. Or rather, start doing it with any manual for foreign learners. There are not so much to choose among. I will suggest this rather old one, and cheap at that, How to be polite in Japanese, because it is a good book, and because the authors are part of my nostalgia 30 years ago in Nagoya university.

But you will find keigo outside the books aplenty.

That's why the second thing is to quit chew the fat with people of your own age, especially Japanese (keep the girls though), because you will learn nothing of use from them when doing business interpretation. They don't know about keigo. Put a necktie and start getting chummy with some oldies, 60 years old at least being the best generation. A CEO or top brass is the best. Learn how to look and sound older than you are, because except for show business or prostitution, being young in Asia is not a professional advantage.

You will learn keigo by listening first. Also listen as I do to any recordings of IR and corporate presentations because these are chocked full with stiff upper lip no sexy at all but plain daily keigo as if you were working in a Japanese company. On top of this, the speakers are CEOs so you can't get better examples for free of corporate public discourse. That's the basic level of language you will need in business interpretation.

Also, keigo is just the language part of a set of rules of interaction between grown-ups. It implies way much more than language. Body language, facial expression, movements, cloth are all part of keigo. The keigo books won't tell you about this though.

To put keigo into perspective, the earlier the better, you may consider reading or at least getting aware that keigo refers to etiquette, which is a global feature of countries on this planet. There is even an an etiquette for dummies. 

Research methods? I wrote about it already. The web of course, starting with the corporate site, and within these sites, the page that gives an overview of the company. It should be considered the top page, rather than the official top page full of PR jargon and vaporware. Keep the PR jargon for the second stage.

News sources : what's the talk of the town about these corporations? Where do they stand in their respective industry ecosystem? Look for video, audio recordings, podcasts about them or about the industry at large. Don't count much to find something in Japanese though, or call it a miracle if you do. 

Get as much feedback from the client, and if possible, from the other side. Get advanced copies of ppt and any other documents. Ask the question : "What do you want to achieve out of this meeting?" The answers usually bring gold in the understanding of what may pop up. Get the names and positions of people on both sides so you can, especially for the Japanese side, guess who will be speaking most of the time. It may not be the top brass. More than often, sorry for the ladies, but they don't count besides smiling.

And remember your job is about to allow communication to flow. Your opinion doesn't matter.

This will kill that

Serendipity is bringing home crosslinks between apparently separated issues. You know you have been too long in Japan when you don't listen to what your interlocutor talks about, but how she talks about it. That's more than often the way you are listen to. And if you are (seemingly a Westerner?) still craving for what rather than how, you never belong. Beyond tongue in cheeks are two articles going against the announcements of Japanese corporations going global linguistically speaking, Fast Retailing and Rakuten. They are by Professor Tatsuru Uchida of Kobe college, (why should I write sorry?), they are in Japanese only, here, and there. But to summarize, Fast Retailing and Rakuten will fail. What those corporations need is Globish, and what Globish stands to interpretation at large (not in the UN, but really at large) is equivalent to Darth Vader in episode number (I should ask my son for the number, but not a happy end).

Globish too will fail in Japan because everybody wants Oxford English or nothing. Because how matters more than what. I have had several Globish speakers among past clients. Hopefully, their counterparts with culled English competence at an early age couldn't even cope with such grainy English style, still awing at how those French gentleman were so good at English. It is funny how one bases judgment on other people's foreign language competence from the mere fact that one doesn't understand at all. But one day, my customers probably met Japanese counterparts OK with Globish, and that was the end of my professional career with them.

Thanks kami-sama (that means God), there are plenty of English turned eunuchs in Japan so I don't see interpretation opportunities drying out next day. In fact, I see a potential increase in assignments, but that is another story.

The untouchable CEOs turned gods (that's how it works here more than there) announcing that professional life must be valued at 700 TOEIC score or you get the ax, are as modern as wooden shoes that make a nice clatter when walked with but prove a horrible tool to walk, to perform the job of walking. "Just do it" does it better. Globish introduced in grainy perfect Globish is the way to go and the score to reach is 700 Globish score, nothing less. And no English native speakers as teachers, as Professor Uchida suggests.

Globish will kill in the long term a lot of reasons to work through and interpreter. Lots of reasons to work through an interpreter will survive.

Off-topic : keeping it all in the family

There is a fascinating article over the New York Times of the day. The title is "Many in Japan Are Outsourcing Themselves". I am not sure the link functions but access is free once you register.

Here are the juicy morsels :

"Japanese outsourcers are hiring Japanese workers to do the jobs overseas — and paying them considerably less than if they were working in Japan."

The examples cited are of call-centers catering for Japanese customers, but outsourced abroad for cost reasons.

"Such outposts cater to Japanese employers who say they cannot do without Japanese workers for reasons of language and culture. Even foreign citizens with a good command of the Japanese language, they say, may not be equipped with a sufficiently nuanced understanding of the manners and politesse that Japanese customers often demand. "

"Many large Asian cities — including Bangkok, Hong Kong, Jakarta, New Delhi, Shanghai and Singapore — have three to four Japanese job placement agencies each. "

"Some overseas Japanese workers, like Ms. Natori, are not unhappy with their jobs, despite the low salaries. They say their lives abroad have given them a new sense of liberty. "

"If you are willing to live off local Thai restaurants, you spend only 30 baht for rice with eggs, vegetables and meat,” she said. “My rent currently is only 6,000 baht, and utilities are at most an additional 500.” She lives in a roomy studio in a condominium in central Bangkok with security and a swimming pool that is open 24 hours. Life is better in Thailand, she said, because she is free from some of the social and workplace pressures that ate into her private life in Japan. “The moment you step outside, you are in a foreign country here,” she said. “That allows me to have separate workplace and private lives. I am actually able to concentrate on work better because of the clear separation."

Did you know that Okinawa is Japan's Third World?

"“The salary as a local hire in Indonesia wasn’t very different from what you’d get in Okinawa, actually,” she said. “Considering how important Asia is going to be for Japan, I figured it would be a good opportunity.” "

And the appeal to leave Japan and the perspective to care for one's aging parents must be tremendous for some.

"While Transcosmos executives recognize that some Japanese have sought work in Thailand because they could not find employment at home, they say that the job performance of their Thai-based operators is superior to that of counterparts in Japan.
“It is possible that workers in Thailand are able to perform well because they have fewer things to worry about in life,” said Hiroyuki Uchimura, general manager of business process outsourcing services at Transcosmos in Tokyo."

Keeping things in the family ...

"While Japanese companies could save even more if they hired only locals overseas — some experts say locals could be hired at half the cost — the preference for Japanese nationals is likely to endure"

Even telepathy is strictly local ... granted it works.

"“You say one thing and Japanese employees will understand three things,” he said. “In Western cultures, you might be straightforward with what you want your staff to know, but a Japanese manager would want you to understand it without having to say it.” "

I can't get out of my mind the recent buzz about Rakuten and Fast Retailing going full English in Japan, and for Fast Retailing at least, preparing to hire a squadron of foreigners (read "Chinese" first), and send a bataillon of local hires abroad.

The best way to deliver Japanese service abroad is to hire Japanese national. So women, first, go West, or South-West, or North-East. A Uniqlo mega shop in Europe staffed with Japanese only (girls) would make a mega hit and allow to exclude even the thought of creating a worker syndicate. I would not be surprised for Fast Retailing that this idea is in the pipe already.

The move toward going English all the way through stirs smiles and jokes, especially when thinking about the reality of the state of English here, but more deeper, when considering the lack of multiculturalism in Japan. But there are speakers and would be speakers who would certainly agree to call it quit, leave the Japan ship and be a part of New York, Shanghai or Paris. Actually, at SME's level, I have already met with several students here in Tokyo ready to move to Paris to work for local offices. Japan will export its incompetence at opening up, not much by filtering entries, but by exporting cool and willing Japanese abroad, and keep it all in the family.

Through an interpreter

I purchased and watched the DVD "Communicating Effectively Through an Interpreter" published by the Cross-Cultural Healthcare Program. This program originally provided over VHS now comes in DVD format and at 28 minutes only, it certainly costs an arm and a leg. It only covers the basics which are certainly nothing to gulp down in 28 minutes and conclude you mastered it. At best, you perceive the issues at stake. Medical interpretation is not a lucrative business, and in Japan, it is said to be even less than that. The focus is empathy.

There are other focuses. Some niche markets very high on the lucrative scale are maybe the less known about. I met with a veteran in such niche, one of those rare non-Japanese top of the top practitioner. Both impressive and a strange feeling at the same time. The threshold may finally be between those you simply can't meet, the majority, and those exceptional cases who accept to share a cup of coffee.

Circumstantial rather than systemic is the path that launched a career. A fortunate sending by a national government to learn at the S. school in Tokyo. A bubble era still lifting off, and smart move at quitting the tracked formula of the school that ramps you up strict levels of competence and gives you mouthful of assignments until you reach (maybe) the stars. He decided to go alone, that is freelancing all the way through. Things to remember : what was the single tool of the trade learned that has kept significantly valuable over the years? Note-taking. And the lists of technical vocabulary to gulp down.

We were on the same bandwidth concerning chances at doing it through the standard local ecosystem. Mostly nil. "They don't even hire "foreigners" born her!" And the worse is that the embassies do the same (happy to hear, I knew it).

Word of mouth in niche market more important than web site. You can leave it alone for years gathering dust and wild foliage. Nobody cares.

Hates translation, just as I do hate translation.

Highly technical domains allow and justify to charge for preparation time. 

That lack of content for training. How it hurts each week to find for valuable content, especially in Japanese, content in real spoken Japanese, not marketing, not politician, not PR Japanese. Simply the real stuff. So the gap between what one works on at school and real professional life may be huge.

Probably, and as in most cases, nothing will be left about the experience. How do you say this in English? "Après moi le déluge."

Interaction in liaison interpreting

The abstract of "Interaction in liaison interpreting" by Auscaronra Blinstrubaiteacute, University of Vilnius, Lithuania, reads like this :

"This article discusses the specifics of liaison interpreting as a new profession which is quickly getting recognised. Three examples of liaison interpreting in different cultural and professional settings are chosen to discuss the role of the interpreter and her influence on the flow of information and negotiations. Also, the examples given illustrate the theoretical implications of Wadensj (1993) and Gentile (1996) for liaison interpreting activity as interaction. This study underlines that the process of interaction between the interlocutors speaking different languages is influenced by the interpreter's presence, notably so when she exerts too much intervention, partiality or interactive coordination."

To read the full article, you have to shell out close to $90. As the objectives of putting the access line high is less a matter of generating money than walling a territory of competences and powers, unless you are "a part of it" as would sing Lisa Minelli, you are left with ... imagining the full length of this inaccessible piece of knowledge and conjecture.

The interpreter's presence. Ha! How we all wished to get rid of her, her intervention, her partiality, her interactive coordination. I have to remember a recent client who specifically requested "neutrality". Neutrality is consciously managed. It doesn't come naturally even when you still don't understand your role as a liaison interpreter, even you kind of understand it.

The natural rush at "participating beyond mechanical rendition of speech" must be tamed. But what if patterns of interaction between the two sides are culturally so tainted with different, nay, incompatible hues that the "mere translating", if that were only feasible, would not allow communication to happen, beyond the surface of polite theater play?

I am always standing here in the context of liaison interpretation for business. The too sides are not talking about particle physics or mathematics. They are talking business each one using a set of well applied formulas that usually work within the play game of same culture same country interaction. The problem is when these two worlds get closer. From a pure ethnocentricism basis, they are not gravitating in identical systems. And to add to this image of gravitational objects getting closer to each others, the reduced distance totally warps bends and transforms the styles of interaction. It is evident as an interpreter when you listen to how both sides may, awkwardly, launch into brief inner discussions and the contrast suddenly implied by the fact that they now briefly speak among peers. I have never read anything about this warping of communication style but you never exactly get a cowboy in front of a samurai. Players are warped, at first encounter, but also when they have known each other well and develop a set of tone and manner, and some redundant jokes the interpreter fears more than anything else as she usually totally miss the background. I doubt the abstracted article covers any of these mumbling though.

Almost off-topic : Asian Books

When you are in Tokyo, you wake up in the morning, wake up the computer and quickly start reading the newspaper of your home country 10 000 km away, there is a telling of how the Internet has been reshaping the story of being abroad, nostalgia and the cures of it. This is a story I have not yet read about. Anyway, sometimes you get uneasy with the fact that here seems less a matter than over there. But between here and over there lays a huge gap needing sometimes to be plugged in, a look at another "ailleurs" and the languish of all the elsewhere one can't be.

I have been following Scholars without Borders' blog for a few years now and I recently placed my second order. It definitely took its time to land here, but receiving a package from India, weird packing method as seen form the kingdom of wrapping, Japan, using a variety of rope belonging to the past, is still a mighty exotic experience, in fact, exoticism in it purest, juvenile form, just like receiving stamps from many unknown regions of the world like Japan was a thrilling and a day-dreaming inducing event a long time ago. A package from Amazon feels tasteless, generic, globalized these days. Not from India.

The covers have a thin layer of something like invisible dust. They are telling stories even before opening the pages. One of these book I am trying to keep virgin for days coming to be spent in a hospital is "Fossilization in Adult Second Language Acquisition" by ZhaoHong Han. Reading from the first pages is something reassuring to know, that SLA for adults is bound to failure in most cases. But failure has many meanings, and I shall know more about it soon.

There are other trails to follow to keep an eye on Asian books - in English that is, like these two : The Asian Review of Books and the Asia Times Online Book Reviews. Not a surprise but very few books about Japan are covered by those media. There are far more books published about Asia without Japan, than books specifically covering Japan. And Japan still doesn't feel to belong.

To finish with today's post, I looked around in the piles of books around the rooms and luckily dug out one of the books purchased the first time from India. "Turning the Pot, Tilling the Land" is a children book about dignity. It tells about circumstances that seem very far away an harsh. The graphics are beautiful as well as the text uplifting. 

Off-topic : read anything and everything

Not so much off-topic. You've got a hard time here suggesting and getting interest in things out of standards, and the classroom is no different than the outside world. A language where there is no proper translation for the French verb "se débrouiller" is not prone to act outside the boundraries of rules (for which there are many words). I have been unleashing at each course the absolute necessity for students to open their mouth, in the secured surrounding of their home, and read aloud, anything, and everything, and not only the foreign language but their own language.

Now Charles Bukowski is giving a helping hand in the introduction of John Fante "Ask the dust" (in this beautiful cover edition). Starving and drunk, he spends time in an L.A. public library on the lookout for something valuable to read. And he reads and peruse most about anything until he bumps into Fante's books. Before that, he tries everything, religion, philosophy, mathematics, geology, even surgery. The introduction is short and simple, but Bukowski's searching that brings him to "taste" everything came as a wonderful wink from some years ago.

The very same day I read the introduction, a few hours later on, I had a talk with Y. in Paris and a heart crushing beauty of a daughter of his I hadn't seen for years until that day thanks to Skype. I showed the book over the camera to Y. because I know his fondness for Bukowski, and he jumped at the sight, as he was lamenting not to find any left over of the sold out translation of the novel in French. Talk about coincidences.

$200,000 a year

$200,000 a year working as Dari and Pashto. An interesting and possibly rare article in the Washington Post on the hot recruiting of US army interpreters in the USA to be sent to Afghanistan. For a shuddering read about a recent Iraqi interpreter allegedly killed by a son, this one tells about culture clash. I am not into the mere copy-pasting of links devoid of personal comments but the subject of interpreting at wars is a strong inhibiting subject. The Washington Post article gives brief hints through figures on the potential number of Dari and Pashto speakers in the US to work as interpreters. How many big countries have publicly known national strategic language initiatives? In this chicken and egg relationship between sudden needs and resources availability, there is a thorny issue where preventive action at a country level seems impossible. At the same time, the books that inform about the history of national crash courses in the enemy language for urgent situations is missing in giving details on methods, at a time where it has never been so easy for some language at least to self-educate granted there is a will. Maybe China has something to teach about the subject.

Medical interpreters : where are the books?

Now that the US has a Certified Medical Interpreter exam, the question is, where are the books, the training manuals? Am I missing something? There are more material here in Japan, although not a huge amount yet, on medical interpretation, than in the US. Nothing on Amazon I could detect in the line of "CMI exam made easy". Too early one would comment. If it were here, I assume the launching of the exam would  come with a serious selection of books in too tiny characters, not the US door stoppers hefty volumes. It might come sooner her, to prepare for the US exam, than in the US.

Answering from home

Hello Michael, now your comment is in. Sorry for the technical censorship not intended. I will try and keep it short. I have to create a post here rather than adding to your comment because Blogger restricts the length of comments, so I feel freer to answer from home, that is here.

I bet you are "not exactly sure how to respond". You were in kindergarden, or maybe not yet on this planet when I was already here. But being here is not a qualification for sure and I agree with you as you may think this way reading this very sentence.

Yes, "tepid". Try and think about the social role of the Japan Times in the local ecosystem and the mantra of "we gaijin" that keeps at bay the large majority of foreigners in this country. It's a borderline media. It has no impact but it does have a role, channeling Western or Westernized opinions, nothing daring, ethnocentric but the cool way so that it pleases or at least makes the reader pleasantly yawn or chuckle. Channeling some  ire too,  here and there, for the sake of demonstrating freedom of speech, ire that would not get through the media that matter, the local media in Japanese that is.

We are not Chinese, Korean, Philippinos, Brazilian. We are a tiny lot and the JT caters to specific needs and play a strategic role within a microcosm where "micro" has a deep meaning. They must have The Korea Times over the straight that must play the same role. What's bad about it? Nothing. Come down to earth! What's about about you writing in this tepid newspaper? Nothing. It's a good start to make a name and a living past the JET program in Japan. Good move! Think about the next step though. A book is order I think. Amy Chavez is tepidier (is that English?), and she still delivers but you have to leave the shores of the JT one day.

You did not claim you are master of the subject indeed, but it doesn't need claim to set yourself as a master. As a few oldies I met years ago told me when coming for the first Osaka Olympics : "We talked three words of Japanese. We immediately were hired as interpreters." What is bad about pointing at this? No pun intended. Seriously. Only beginners despise gaijin talent. I was a beginner way too long. Now, I don't love them nor do I hate them. Mostly I don't care, but I understand their social role in the ecosystem. In English, that is, the English speaking world, you may bump into some criticism. Write French and nobody will dare question your mastery (slightly cynical here I reckon).

You have to understand the ecosystem because it is mightily interesting, which doesn't bare you to providing the sirup they like and need over there at the JT.

Yes, the video is fantastic to me, not what is visible but what is implicit. No cynicism here as well. It is strange how you call things fantastics and you get people suspecting you are sneering at them. I am not. You are part of the new generation of Western white gaijin here. Is it cheeky to point that you come here way much more armed compared with your ancestors of 30 years ago? It's the truth. What's uncomfortable with the truth? There is still an ecosystem here that needs new breed of gaijin to function within and deliver the dope.

"Simply avoiding debating/discussing is not likely to be a possibility". You may or may not avoid it. But most of the time, it doesn't come to you, based on experience. And when it does, people listen at your inflamed gesticulations and say "naruhodo". But then, you are still a beginner if you do it, and you have already noticed the cost of it, so it makes you no longer a beginner. Once you start thinking in terms of costs and stakes, you are an adult. I used to be a beginner for a long time. As one of your commenters wrote (I try and remember), when I want to exchange views, arguments and enjoy a little bout of rhetorics, I play this game with my gaijin (read "Western" friends). We all do, in the end. The only caricature in the video is the Western mode of discussion. The rest I don't much see as a caricature but as a brilliant summary and warning at what you are putting at stake by not taming you in the instance where you are asked your "opinion" on this or that. You are not asked your opinion, you are asked to deliver the expected show of the (Western) gaijin. That's why we seldom are in a discussion/argument mode. We are in a social play where roles are predefined.

"I completely agree with you that learning keigo and understanding why it is used in Japanese society is an important thing to do, especially in business situations, but I think you are primarily addressing the linguistic side of the problem."

Never in my life! again, this is a beginner's symptom! There are books on keigo so what's the fuss? You buy one, put it on the treadmill and experience it in real life, necktie recommended. No such book I am aware of goes deep into the why. Linguistics in terms of "applied to learning" "is about the how. The why is to be discovered over time, but I believe this learning time could be accelerated if some treaties were reverse engineering the function of keigo for instance, from a strategic point of view, and mirroring what is called politeness and savoir-vivre. This is much more a global cultural tarit than starbucks. So no, I am not into linguistics when I refer to keigo. I am into strategy. And just to give you a suggestion at specific strategy unless you are aiming at show business, get older, look older. It's a good investment I was not told bout.

Yes, more understanding is required. Over time, it is also required to move on to look at the self, the observer, in the mirror, and deconstruct the talk and stance, including what the JT stands for and the role of it and who writes in there for. Ethnocentrism is at play deeper than one might think. I am not immune to it. But I pretend to be further on when it comes to awareness.

Miscellanea

• "Ali works as a tactical interpreter for US special forces in Afghanistan (...)". The plight of terps in Afghanistan, Iraq and else. Now, you can't be an interpreter only. You've got to be tactical.
• Why interpreters stoop? I owe this questioning to the wonderful picture (need one for one of my business cards) shown over the Unprofessional Translation blog. Now, watch this favorite of mine picture of Sherwood F. Moran in action, interpreter and interrogator. This also tells about the man and why he is stooping forward.
• E. telling me he heard harsh words about Miss. H. star interpreter. How mean she is, how mean they are. I tell him back that being nasty toward colleagues is a (inter)national sport in this profession, a common although no unique thread. Once the ice start thawing, you can bet hints at he or her being not up to the rumored level, or simply having "bad pronunciation and blunt Japanese" will pop up. It popped up twice in conversations over two weeks. The boring aspect of it is that you can bet they will start spitting venom and always win.
• It's here : Volume 2, Number 1 (2010) of Translation and Interpreting, with an interesting paper around teaching interpreting and feedback from students.
• It's the voice stupid : diction is translated by 話し方, and I feel that we are not on the same bandwidth at all. Still looking for courses on Japanese diction, even a personal trainer, only to get puzzled look. And I am less and less puzzled by the puzzlement.
• Still waiting for this book on interpreters and diplomacy. Looks appealing.
• Why are most interpreters (here) female, and why are most unmarried (Ooops! I blundered, again)?
• Westerners learning Japanese should have their nose put into issues of politeness and savoir-vivre. I have yet to find anything sensible here besides the unsurprising "how to be polite in order to avoid shame in society" type of books. A book on the subject in your own language will suffice as a mind opener to this crucial issue, probably for Westerners only. Make it compulsory in Japanese curriculum.
• It's critical, again. What? Japanese language, is back, or is it, in the list of the Critical Language Scholarship Program. It's Kyodo blurb so read with a grain of salt.

Arguing and interpretation

It starts off-topic, but it's main topic all the way through so stand by me.

It starts with the reading of yet another tepid article in the tepid Japan Times. One guy wants Japanese schools to teach kids empathy. What else, English, debating competence, Powerpoint slideshow editing, thinking by oneself, daring having opposing views? When do you expect math to be taught now that empathy gets into the curriculum? And who will teach these things? And why not teach kids on the other side - because there are two side you know, us and we - not to carry lethal weapons at school? Anyway. Again, it's the Japan Times state of mind, and it's not a song about New York.

Then serendipity comes in. I jump to this article in the (giggle) Education section : Mastering the gentle art of arguing in Japanese. Good title, but who is the Master? The best part of the article turns to be the raising of the very subject. But I quit when it starts veering into the "how-to" chapter with pieces of words and expressions you must "master".

I can't refrain though and click on the link to jump onto Michael Gakuran web site. The original article is more meaty and worth a re-read. The large collection of comments are worth perusing to. Common are matters of communication and the frustrations of it from a  Westerners point of view living in Japan will be familiar to some.

The most interesting part of the story is again that anyone would raise as clearly the issue of argumentation (between Western and Japanese side, manicheistically speaking), with the standard Western complaint of "I can't have satisfactory debates with Japanese", "I have no friends (not in the Facebook sense) to talk to who is Japanese", and the rest of the litany.

Michael Gakuran is part of the next generation of Westerners to fill the pages of tepid Japan Times and equivalent. Japan needs tepid lenient Westerners they are not afraid of. Nothing new with that. What is rather new is that the next generation will deliver even better than the previous, because it was soaked into Japanmania right out of the womb. No jealousy involved. It's the plain truth and a matter of fact.They feel good here, or at least have the knack to pretend they do even before turning into a Gaijin Talento.

Gakuran's style matches tepidness and it makes sense when you want to write in the Japan Times. He writes the way pages want to be filled here. Still into JET program, it shows how committed and directive and strategic one can turn even under leniency and very few years spent in the country. These are premature experts at fitting in the local marketing pool.

Way much more interesting is what is being implied, and I want you to watch what is announced as a humorous video by the end of the article, showing the differences in argumentation styles. Behind the caricature, especially the so-called messy Western way of arguing versus the restrained and brilliant imitation of a Japanese exchange of opposite opinions, there is an essential story to take back home.

These guys are truly brilliant and tell a story Gakuran cannot catch - I don't think he skips this on purpose of additional strategic tepidness - that the correct question is not : How to Argue in Japanese, awkward title that one day will turn into a classic book for Westerners in Japan. No, the correct question should be instead : Why argue with Japanese? And the brilliant guys in the video implicitly spill out the core issue at stakes ...

... and that's where we come back to The Liaison Interpreter' blog main topic .....
(wheeww!) ....

What do you want to achieve by arguing?

The answers are provided in some of the comments that show the author is still behind his readers. One states the following :

My feeling about debating with Japanese people is, "don't". They aren't taught critical thinking in school and are discouraged from engaging in opinion-based arguments. They're at a disadvantage because their cultural priorities are different. They're supposed to consider not only the other person's viewpoint, but also their relative status. If you're a guest or a teacher or a person of higher rank in your company, they are unlikely to disagree with you overtly anyway. It's not a level playing field, and it feels like taking advantage for some sort of person ego gratification to try and debate with Japanese folks. So, I simply don't. There are plenty of foreigners to have such discussions with, and we're all operating on from the same cultural perspective and were educated to have such arguments.

Then, how to avoid arguing and rather focus on what you want to achieve?
The answer to this pops up in another brilliant comment.

I've had plenty of discussions and generally explore topics carefully with them (almost daily, actually). Mainly, I make sure not to try and score points for my "side" (which I see as debating) or trying to prove that I have a better point or more supported perspective. What I tend to do is ask questions to spiral outward from what a Japanese person expresses until they reach a conclusion. That conclusion is the point I want to make, but they get there thinking its their realization, not my viewpoint. I don't usually assert anything about what I think or feel actively, but just try to lead people along a line of discussion that will help them be open to other ideas. In the end, they "agree" with me because they've not been challenged or even asked to agree. They've just been lead to "understand". It's absolutely non-confrontational and is more about educating than debating.

So, discussion, yes. :-) Debate, no. ;-)

In business liaison interpreting with Japanese as interlocutors, when the setting is somewhat controversial, playing the mantra of neutrality and just transferring what your client says is usually a guarantee for failure. And as experience shows, you probably simply cannot refrain that urge to bend the blunt angles of your client when you know that this won't do. It is the very reason why I ask my clients : "What do you want to achieve by the end of the session?" Because as an helper, chances I may slightly bend the speech for their benefit, helping them getting closer to achieve what they want to take away.

As for the issue of satisfactory discussions with Japanese, I have found a clue recently in a book that has apparently no relationship with Japan it totally ignores. It is a book (in French) about politeness, savoir-vivre and social relations.

One unknown writer would suggest to teach empathy at Japanese school. I would suggest to learners of the Japanese language, and those punitively uneasy with themselves in front of the lack of satisfactory discussions with Japanese people two thing : learn keigo (honorific language) - there are plenty of books for that, and learn why you need keigo. There are no books I am aware of that are asking and answering the "why" question. Interestingly enough, you will get hints why keigo and the behaviors that come with it by reading a book on savoir-vivre. It won't sooth the pain in one day, but it may help reset the mind toward more strategic things to enjoy life here.

Half-native Mikitani speaks out

There is more comment on today's weather forecast than analysis of the meaning of what people in the news say. You tend to get used to the daily half-anesthetic state of no thinking beside the basics of what's coming next in the two hours.

I can't get rid of the anglicization stuff. It is not a bad idea, but where does it start to prove awkward, on the verge of stupidity. I found part of the answer in an interview of Rakuten CEO Mikitani over Toyo Keizai Online.

Somewhere in the course of the interview, Mr. Mikitani speaks of himself of being "half-native". That's when I would have called the shrink. Is the intention to have all the staff (or only the top brass as you can't, as usual, make a sense of all the vague and contradictory reports of the press) turn "a quarter", "a half" or "fully" native?

But what is "native"? I for one will never be native of any of my foreign languages I use for getting money, paying the rent or more. So is it a matter of being "fluent", with all the previous categories, "half", "quarter", fully "quarter and a half"?

There is a majority of the world who do not give a dime about your fluency. On the beach of Coppacabana or the Cote-d'Azur, I assume that ice-cream vendors can fix a deal with whatever nationalities around, flipping with gelato, glace, icecream, the Chinese or Breton equivalent, granted Bretons are a large enough population to learn, hello, thank you, good bye, strawberry, have a nice day and the likes.

As Donald Richie wrote somewhere in his journal, and I try and remember the gist of it, a farmer's wife in poor Sicilia will bog you with 3 English broken words in order to entice you to buy her goat cheeses.

In the previously mentioned interview, the journalist asks :

　——日本人同士で英語を話すと、効率が落ちるのではないかという声もありますが、そうした問題は乗り越えられますか。

There are voices criticizing the need for Japanese staff to have to speak English even among themselves as this may impact efficiency. Can this hurdle be overcome?

　簡単に乗り越えられる。1年後にはまったく問題ないでしょう。

Yes, easily. There won't be any issue left after a year.

I wonder if the journalist asked the basic, priority question : why should Japanese among themselves speak English? Back in the Golden Year of having spent 12 months at Nagoya university with a Japanese government stipend, and a regimen of 6 to 8 hours of intensive courses of Japanese daily that made the verb "progress" a tangible thing, the various nationalities in the classroom quickly settled down to use Japanese among ourselves. In a sense, we rehearsed Japanese during the breaks, we breathed Japanese all the time, except when talking among peers of same native language. It felt awkward, but the feeling very quickly disappeared. Japanese was the lingua franca to overcome the various level of comfort, or the lack of it at English, the international language.

What would be the purpose to have all your staff sharing a common native language to speak another one? Would it be a way to break procrastination at not being even "half-native"? A rule and a mean of continuous training? I am at loss with this although I do understand there might an impact granted many traits of being Japanese be overcome first, that are beyond issues of language, and way much more into matters of hierarchy, shame management, etc.

Mr. Mikitani, and Fast Retailing CEO Mr. Yanai share the same concern they probably discuss in Japanese among themselves, that "Galapagosization" of Japan, the result of the "we-are-unique" mantra deep down ingrained in the fabric, is now feeling acutely dangerous. They have a point. Globalisation is about language as a dynamic activity, the patterns of which are massively of Western marketing orientation. In that sense, wabi-sabi on the world scene at least is meaningless. There's a culture clash here where language is a vehicle, but not the main factor.

You know how the feeling of urgency works here, as in other part of the world. It may go down the gutter until it's too late to adapt, not to catch up.

I see the point of this fear, and English is for sure bound for a renewed excess of craze. The day you see travelers in the subway silently mumbling at silence shadowing with ears plugged, and eyes conveniently focused on the mobile tiny screen, you'll say something is brewing.

There is another startling utterance in Mr. Mitani stance :

日本人が英語をしゃべれるようになれば、海外の人も日本で働きやすくなる。日本人を使うとコストが高いし、労働力が足りなくなるのだから、海外から来てもらうしかない。

When Japanese will be able to speak Japanese, Japan will turn more convenient for foreigner to work in. Employing Japanese is expensive and the workforce is turning scarce so much that there will be no solution but to have them come to Japan from abroad.

So basically, we want foreign workers to come and get paid less than Japanese.

The standard counter argument to my interpretation could be :

- Global refutation : your wrongly interpreted my words (= I didn't mean what I said).

- The local refutation:

1- You don't understand the subtleties of Japanese.
2- This interview was not supposed to leak out of Japan (rare these days).

It is great, great time to go back to the main subject of this blog. Sorry for the readers. And if you teach English, you know where in Tokyo to run to. Nova, come back.

Japan Corporate anglicization

Almost off-topic : Anglicization is in. And it is the "~zation" ending that matters most. In 12 years time (The Republic of?) Rakuten will have moved from Japanese as internal lingo to English. It's official, they are going English, like Nissan, like Fast Retailing.

12 years. Maybe a boon for the battered English industry. Cram schools with "English for toddlers" are crying out of pure joy. Mothers are ever more worried. What else could they do? Society, that is marketing, have been busy formatting them that way.

A threat for interpreters? Maybe.

12 years, that's the duration of compulsory education plus 3 years. That's the number of tribes in ancient Israel.

In a show of commitment, Rakuten CEO delivered the announcement in English, and answered in English to journalists' questions in English, and in Japanese to the others.

No Chinese?

How many foreign journalists were called as props to the announcement?

It's hard not to chuckle, to call it a failure before it starts. In the boardrooms of Japan Inc. the average must be 70 years old and the matter of English as tangible as reaching for the moon.

Where else does this happen? This is important. Here as everywhere else, you can't count on the press to tell the people where else in the world forced corporate anglicization is taking place. Probably Korea, but who cares about Korea, or mentioning Korea, especially if examples in Korea were showing that Japan, a tiny part of it, is just but following Korea in the trail of forced march toward English?

What about forced march toward meaningful, articulated argumentation? Who will teach anyway?

How to get blond with blue eyes? Will they hire Indian teacher? No, Indian is for math only.

Berlitz' ad campaign focused on business English since last year may have come in anticipation. Monitoring the English manual being churned out in more than ever detailed slicing of "real corporate life English" will keep me busier, on the lookout for something that may be turned into material for teaching interpretation. Coming next is probably "English in the boardroom - What every board member should know in order not to loose face in front of others".

Repeat 10 times : "we-Japanese-culture is uniquely unique".

The vortex of English crash and desperate learning is also a blow to other languages being taught here. What's the fuss with minor languages like .... Spanish?

Will the impact reach the delicious trail of books seen over these recent years on "How to think logically?". "How to think log...", "How to think". The boys and girls coming back from holy English speaking countries (is a plural needed?) like ... America ... will be loved-and-hated more or less from now on. As M. said the other day, "not only am I asked if I speak English, but also if I speak Japanese". Both of which she excels in.

This obsession with language you tend to acquire living here over the years, less the language, more the obsession. If not it, we would have even less things to speak about.

This blog will cease mumbling for the coming 12 years and come back in Italian.

Expect more blue eyes blond cashiers at convenience store to practice :

- Clerck : 256 yens
- Customer : ......
- Clerck : do you want a bag?
- Customer : yes, yes! (alternate, no, no!)
- Clerck : "Thank you very much and we hope to see you again soon on board of our shops open 24/24 always here to serve you a smile (and a salary with no future)".
- Customer : ....

Over.